PiñaBlog Bits and Pieces of Piña

In the opposite direction, Cory, the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches meet some of these needs. Most have sanctuarys or chapels open for prayer, some 24/7. I’m not saying reversing the reformation fixes everything. I am saying, though, that the Catholic church has carried forward over and against some of the modern forces some of the elements of medeival practices that meet your frustrations with our contemporary framework.

For reasons I don’t understand, my skeptical eye for the church has evolved significantly into a more gracious and accepting lens. There is good in the church. There are in fact great churches, even within the values you seem to be expressing.

Posted by Bill Ekhardt on 25 May 2006 @ 5pm

I remember when we started talking about Monasticism (monks) in Church History, and I got really excited. There’s something about early Church mysticism, and the rough edges of Desert Life that intrigued me. I think I’m just looking for something that’s real.

Not something Emergent.

I could not care less about Emerging. I know that I sound really frustrated with Church a lot lately - and hopeless. But I’m not. I know there are good things. I’m just looking for where I fit into them.

Posted by Cory on 25 May 2006 @ 8pm

Sometimes I wonder if we’re meant to feel the weight of dispersion so we can remember the hope of being invited into a place where we can be with each other, if that makes sense, and remember it like we did the first time we knew were weren’t alone anymore? I mean, it’s some poetic license with James 1:1, but it helps me sometimes. Dispersed and scattered until we can come together thanks to God.

Posted by James Orr on 25 May 2006 @ 9pm

i too feel so discouraged with church, like i don’t fit in anywhere. tuesday nights have become my church, i don’t know if that is a good thing or not, but it is where i feel a connection to god and to other christians. i see god working there, i feel him, i trust other christians and am not afraid of what they think, ok…i do worry about it sometimes, but not like at church. i can “feel” the worship in my soul and spirit. for right now, it works for me, i still seek out other places to worship but that is a struggle right now.

Posted by debbie on 26 May 2006 @ 6am

Cory,

I don’t know what to say, but I want to say something along these lines. The monastic movement is primarily an inward one. Its roots are in the desert fathers who spent time in solitude - like decades at a time.

the spirituality of these generally follow 1. purging your life of sin, like spending a week contemplating your sinfulness and confessing. 2. having a spiritual director who could lead you into contact with God. 3. lots of contemplative prayer - prayer not as much from the head but the heart. Martin Luther, for example when asked how to pray said that he prayed through the ten commandments, lords prayer, and apostles creed. every day. he considered each commandment or phrase four ways:
1 what am I thankful for
2. What does this teach me
3. what can I ask for
4. what should I do?

My point in this is that they prayed the same stuff repetitively - like the same prayers every day and many times a day. the content of their prayers were not so much the issue as using that repetitive content to place themselves before God and be opened to his presence.

I’ll stop there. I think I’m trying to say though Cory, that if you want something like what the monoastics had, the journey begins with you. True they had support and community, but it was very much focused on the individual’s devotion to God and practice of the presence of God.

Posted by Bill Ekhardt on 26 May 2006 @ 7am

When you say “Church” do you mean the people? or the process of worship? Do you mean doing church? or being the Church? Do you mean who we are and become when we do church? Yes, that can sometimes be ugly and meaningless. Do we want church to be comfortable? Or do we want church to let us know we are still in the world and still have work and harvest to do - yes, probably even within the Church, and definitely as you said especially within ourselves.

Posted by Betty on 26 May 2006 @ 7am

I want Church to be Real Life.

Posted by Cory on 26 May 2006 @ 8am

Maybe real life is the problem. Our worship and our “life” are out of sync. Maybe it is real worship we should be wrestling with instead of church. That is the boat I find myself…

Posted by N Tony on 28 May 2006 @ 10am